First, she claims that the Ten Commandments don't promote Christianity because they predate Christianity and were followed in all ancient societies. "What religion then do they establish?" she asks. "Judaism? Islam?" How about all 3 in a twisted sort of way? And I would love to see a copy of these tablets from Babylon, Sumeria, or Assyria. I'm sure they'd be word for word.
But the really funny thing here is that she mentions how even in pagan societies, people have a conscience. Therefore, conscience is built within us - obviously a sign of God's handiwork. Then she goes right on to craft a list of "Pagans' 10 Commandments" that she really means are for atheists. In doing so, she manages to insult pagans and atheists in one blow.
01. There is no God, you may do as you please without restraint. Love yourself above all else. Be selfish.
Well, we can't put that on government buildings because it promotes atheism. The government has to stay neutral. Also, neither pagans nor atheists generally advocate such selfish hedonism and certainly not to the extent that they would have no regard for other people.
Yeah, that's kind of what the First Amendment says: worship whatever and however you choose. And if we weren't constantly trying to fulfill our desires and get more stuff, capitalism wouldn't work. Why does this lady hate America?
First Amendment again, free speech. Be glad we have it because I certainly consider Johanna's words here offensive. It would be a shame if she got censored because of her own stupidity.
In my experience, workaholics in this area are often Christian men and I think a lot of that has to do with them being raised "old school" that they have to provide for the family no matter what it costs them physically or emotionally. My Dad certainly fell victim to that. But I do not know of any atheists or pagans who actively promote this ideal. Why would we? We enjoy family and friends and quiet time like anyone else.
Not all parents are created equally. Some are negligent. Some are abusive. Some are so dysfunctional that they harm the mental and emotional well-being of their children through manipulation and guilt. In the happy fantasy world of Christians like Johanna, parents (and parenting) are a blessing and a child should be grateful. I say children should give respect where earned and care for their parents according to what they believe is proper and healthy. But nowhere have I seen any pagans or atheists promoting general disrepect to parents, much less plotting to have them all killed.
Huh? We don't advocate stealing and we don't like it when others steal from us. She seems to be accusing us of her brand of "socialism" or something. I'd love for her to recite this to a gun-toting pagan (Jessica, are you out there?)
Adultery should be a daily occurrence, gay or straight or both? We can do it all day, in the streets, on the bus, in the churchyard? Seriously, this is just absurd. She seems to think we have no self-control and no ability to be honest and faithful to our chosen partner(s). I think she's mad because her gang has to lie about their affairs while we can at least be honest about our sex lives.
If we believed in this, I'd already have taken this lady out. She annoys me. Luckily for her, however, I do not advocate murder. Still can't think of anyone who does...
Johanna's already following this rule very well because everything she's written about us is absolutely false. If anything, most of us think we need more realization of the truth, not less.
Again, this is kind of the driving force of capitalism - certainly of unregulated capitalism. The human race can't advance without pursuing our desires. Our goal is to weigh those desires against the needs of others. Most of us manage to do this pretty well without any help from gods.
Johanna concludes by saying, "Is this the society we really want? This is what we are getting!"
I don't know what the hell is going on in her corner of northern Minnesota, but here in the real world, we're getting along pretty well and the situation is absolutely nothing like the picture she painted. False witness indeed!
ROFL!!!!! Oh hell yeah I'm here. And I tracked this heifer down on that website and gave her a piece of my mind too!!! PURE drivel, I wouldn't feed my dog on top of the swill that she wrote. =P
ReplyDeleteI've been taken to task in another forum for this post because I didn't pull any punches. The person felt that I was unnecessarily causing division between the religious and non-religious with this post.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think, readers? Is it appropriate to call a spade a spade or should we be taking a kinder, gentler approach? My experience tells me kindness has gotten us nowhere except worse but I'm always open to other ideas.
I, along with many others I've talked to recently, agree that it is important to head off these allegations and misrepresenting interpretations of Atheist, Agnostics, Humanist and Free Thinkers as we see them. By sitting quiet are we not just condoning and agreeing to what they have said about us.
ReplyDeleteTaking the high road doesn't always mean keeping quiet, besides they are taking the low road making these claims and that means less traffic on the high road. Keep our heads high and our voices clear and let everyone know "you can be good without god" and "we are all human".
Her Big X look pretty much like the common practices of Evangelical X-ians. ~ Mike Owen
ReplyDeleteI did not find your article divisive. Heckler's ignorant hyperbole is divisive, and you are indeed calling a spade a spade. Nowhere do you generalize her views and say this is what all Christians believe, or that all Christians are stupid. I would counsel against using words like stupidity when referring to people, while fully supporting words like absurd when used to describe those people's absurd ideas and writings. "False witness" was also perfectly accurate, not an insult, not an exaggeration. Our anger is justified, but if the goal is to get our message out, rather than to just vent to each other, I'd refrain from commenting on character, intelligence, etc, no matter how apt the description nor how well deserved. We can counter, rebut, and state our position without using language that can make a hostile audience stop listening to us. You mostly did exactly that, my one small quibble would be publicly calling her stupid. ;)
ReplyDeleteMonika
Would like to share thoughts on the word "kind". This is not about your 10 Commandments post, but a response to the "high road" discussion. Did not think your post was low road, not criticizing.
ReplyDeleteKindness does not mean rolling over, not does it mean liking our attackers. We can be assertive, strong, stand up for ourselves, and be kind. Kindness doesn't have to be friendliness, it can be understanding and forbearance.
Those who attack us may not deserve kindness, but what do we gain by lowering ourselves to their level? Bad PR. People not listening to us. In my case, loss of sleep. Rage venting gives me some relief but also makes me focus more on my worries. If we are fair to those who are unfair with us, if we are restrained with those who exaggerate and slander, if we try to understand the human workings of those who simply demonize us, we benefit. People view us more favorably, listen to us more. We might feel less stressed. There's even a tiny chance that those who attack us see realize we're decent people, and that we're right. Rare, but it happens.
I freely admit I am sometimes quite awful at following the above counsel, but think it is an ideal worth striving for.
Monika
I'll just take one. Like, say, oh, number nine.
ReplyDeleteYou atheists are against "thou shalt not bear false witness", but it's because, "if anything", you think there needs to be more truth?
You don't even seem to realize how you are turning logic on it's head.
Typical of you people. Absolute ignorance on stilts.